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<p>Yeah it's fine, you showed that you at least have put some effort
into it and didn't just copy over numbers of last time without
checking if they are still valid.</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek
T: +31611530564</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/05/2025 20:23, Hugh Wells wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p dir="ltr">Hey,</p>
<p dir="ltr">I don't know if we ever resolved this? </p>
<p dir="ltr">Are you happy with the shuttle numbers, or do we need
to change them? </p>
<p dir="ltr">I'm not aware that Shuttle team has any specific
budget envelope beyond the Shuttles themselves - could you
confirm if that is the case? </p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hugh </p>
<div class="protonmail_quote"><br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On 06/05/2025 08:29, Hugh Wells via Shuttle <shuttle@lists.why2025.org>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote">
<p dir="ltr">Hey Henry!</p>
<p dir="ltr">So the plan is to use the drop-off zone on the
North side of Alkmaar station. This is around 11km away
(similar distance to MCH).</p>
<p dir="ltr">We expect a similar turnaround time to that
which you've calculated :)</p>
<p dir="ltr">> With 5 vans, that would mean a van every 8
minutes. That is even more than our public transport and
feels excessive.</p>
<p dir="ltr">So I think it's worth bearing in mind a few
points: <br>
- the 5 vans is to handle peak demand. We won't run them
all continuously; indeed it would be hard to find
volunteers for that <br>
- however, on the first/last day we will have a lot of
people *and* luggage - during busy periods we would have
all the vans in use <br>
- we also take into account some elongated journey times
due to congestion getting on/off site - we don't have
dedicated access to my knowledge <br>
- we anticipate vans being "borrowed" for other tasks - at
MCH I drove someone (forget who) all the way back to Den
Haag as they had COVID. Although it's very much
unadvertised, we imagine there will be Orga who need to
borrow a vehicle for urgent uses.<br>
- we also need to take into account charging (see below
for further discussion), so need a bit of a buffer</p>
<p dir="ltr">We do not intend to run 5 vans continuously
throughout the week. We actually only need 2 or 3 vans for
most of the time from build up to teardown (and this was
communicated to Manduca), but staggering vehicle numbers
comes with additional complexity & time penalty
(driving back and forth to KAV).</p>
<p dir="ltr">On charging...</p>
<p dir="ltr">> Also power cost money, in fact it is
€0,40/kWh</p>
<p dir="ltr">Sure; but it's not coming off our budget to my
knowledge :) <br>
In any case, it's cheaper than fuel per km.</p>
<p dir="ltr">> Also note this van charges at 11kW max (3x
16A), so to charge the full 75kWh would take you about 7
hours.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Yes, this is taken into account. Most times we
expect to have a couple of vehicles on charge, rising to
all of them overnight.</p>
<p dir="ltr">In reality, I expect on a shuttle shift change
that a new driver will take a van off charge and the
finishing driver will put theirs onto charge. In that way
we'll load balance across all of them. </p>
<p dir="ltr">During peak usage we will have none on charge,
of course.</p>
<p dir="ltr">> What is also a bit questionable if you
only have one or 2 chargers and 5 vans.</p>
<p dir="ltr">We've agreed power provision with NUTS and a
63A supply with up to 8 11kWh chargers.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The vans do support DC fast charging which we
can use in extremis (there's fast chargers in Alkmaar). We
want to avoid this where possible as it's expensive (the
same price as fuel).</p>
<p dir="ltr"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.why2025.org/Team:Nuts/heavy_power_request_list">https://wiki.why2025.org/Team:Nuts/heavy_power_request_list</a></p>
<p dir="ltr">> I just want to see that you have thought
it through and not bluntly taken the numbers from MCH and
copied them over</p>
<p dir="ltr">Yes, happy to discuss further :) <br>
The numbers are based on MCH and Manduca's advice and
experience from previous events (SHA, OHM).</p>
<p dir="ltr">If you need to find budgetry headroom then we
can discuss reducing the shuttle requirements - in the
worst case it means it takes longer to move people and
needing to fast charge. That may be an acceptable risk to
take, vs the cost of the additional van hire.</p>
<p dir="ltr">There may be some other trade offs we can make
here too; Wheeze (Lennart) would like us to have trackers
in the Shuttles, which I agree with, which would possibly
help us make more efficient use of them (and give visitors
live information). Unfortunately we don't have any budget
(to my knowledge) so we cannot buy them.</p>
<p dir="ltr">One issue we have is that there are no shuttle
tickets, so we really have no idea what the actual demand
profile looks like, other than the reasonable assumption
that Day -1 & 0 will be very busy.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I did send a shuttle blog over to Info, so
maybe we could publish that and include a link to a form
for people to provide us with arrival/departure details?
We could also include that in the pre-event email.</p>
<p dir="ltr">We can then flex the KAV renral up/down based
on that, closer to the time.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Let me know what you think. Either way, I'd
like Manduca to give his opinion :)</p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hugh </p>
<p dir="ltr">-------- Original Message -------- <br>
On 06/05/2025 02:01, Henry Schokkenbroek wrote: <br>
Hi Hugh,<br>
Yes, correct. As 5 vans sounds like a high number.<br>
And while it is correct we also had 5 with MCH, they were
also used for a lot of other purposes then only train
shuttle (and one van was totalled after day -3 or so).<br>
Not sure what train station you'd be driving to, but
Alkmaar (big train station!) is 10min away.<br>
Say you will be 10min loading + 10 min driving X 2 (back
and forth). A single van would have a turnaround time of
40 minutes. With 5 vans, that would mean a van every 8
minutes. That is even more than our public transport and
feels excessive.<br>
Our fuel costs should (hopefully) be very limited if we
can get the EV charging right, but there will be some
incidental expenses I imagine. <br>
You are counting yourself rich here... <br>
Also power cost money, in fact it is €0,40/kWh. <br>
The peugeot e-travveler has a battery of 75kWh so a full
charge would set you back about €30. <br>
The range of the van, fully loaded is about 300km's, so I
expect you to be charging daily during the busy days. <br>
Also note this van charges at 11kW max (3x 16A), so to
charge the full 75kWh would take you about 7 hours.<br>
What is also a bit questionable if you only have one or 2
chargers and 5 vans.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I just want to see that you have thought it
through and not bluntly taken the numbers from MCH and
copied them over because im afraid that aint going to
work.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek T: +31611530564 <br>
On 05/05/2025 22:04, Hugh Wells wrote: <br>
Hey Henry!</p>
<p dir="ltr">Nancy suggested I get in touch to discuss the
Shuttle requirements :)</p>
<p dir="ltr">I think you had a question about the number of
vehicles?</p>
<p dir="ltr">I didn't run the shuttle for MCH, but I do know
Faze quite well (who did) and obviously have discussed
with Manduca a lot. My understanding is that the numbers
this year are in line with previous requests, but perhaps
this isn't the case?</p>
<p dir="ltr">I don't know what our allocated budget is
either? Our fuel costs should (hopefully) be very limited
if we can get the EV charging right, but there will be
some incidental expenses I imagine. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Best,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hugh </p>
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