[why2025-orga] WHY2025 team:info sweatshop
CH23
chaostwentythree at gmail.com
Wed May 14 00:36:36 CEST 2025
Hi Henry,
> A meeting of about max 2h once every 2 weeks isn't a full work week in my book.
> The meetings themselves are more about providing information to other teams, if discussions go into too much detail we ask them to do it after the meeting.
42 people spending 2 hours on a meeting means 84 hours have been used,
that's 2 workweeks of time used up.
I'm glad you agree that detailed conversation should be done outside
of the meeting (for example through e-mail).
> We already have a longer discussion now on using mail as a medium, as we ever had during an online meeting. So you fail to make your point to me.
My point was that the kind of meetings we're having doesn't add as
much as e-mail can, and the very fact that we're having this
discussion now with multiple people participating -in depth and at a
time that suits them- proves it.
> We log a transcript of the meeting on the wiki you can read it whenever you like.
> And we send an invitation to the meeting hours prior with it, including the pad (who is also used as transcript) and for your team to share updates if you cant/do not want to attend.
Having to read through a transcript to (maybe) find relevant
information just isn't efficient use of time. Adding something to the
pad while not being able to attend, is one-way communication, and if
people in the meeting have questions about that, they still have to
contact those teams in other ways.
> We have a lot of people who do not attend the mail list because they see it as an outdated medium and the frequent (in their eyes) pointless discussions.
It's easier to ignore an e-mail (or skim through it) than to ignore an
undetermined amount of time spent on $subject during a meeting. I
would like to know who the people are that refuse to use e-mail
because it's 'outdated', and what they would suggest in its' stead.
> How many teams reacted to the "Team:Warehouse is now open!" mail to the list?
At first not a lot, but more than we got from repeated calls to action
during the meetings. As a result we took action and interviewed all
teams during the fieldday, which was very helpful and gave us a good
idea why we didn't get a lot of replies. By now we have replies via
e-mail (if not already during the fieldday) from nearly all teams.
> We see that we have very limited reach with the maillist. This is already true since MCH (where we also shared most information during meetings, so this shouldn't be a real surprise).
I was not part of orga during the MCH days, and I have no overview who
does or does not receive the orga maillinglist emails. How does PL
communicate with teams that are not on the mailinglist nor in the
bi-weekly meetings?
Having a central way of communication within the entire WHY orga to
actually organise the organisation should be the bare minimum
requirement to be part of this all, in my opinion.
With kind regards,
CH23 / Jochem
On Tue, 13 May 2025 at 22:58, Henry Schokkenbroek <henry at ifcat.org> wrote:
>
> With 42 teams, this means that we use up an entire workweek of time
>
> A meeting of about max 2h once every 2 weeks isn't a full work week in my book.
> The meetings themselves are more about providing information to other teams, if discussions go into too much detail we ask them to do it after the meeting.
>
> to discuss very little of substance
>
> We already have a longer discussion now on using mail as a medium, as we ever had during an online meeting. So you fail to make your point to me.
>
> E-mail can be read at any time and should be the way to communicate orga-wide as it is not time-sensitive.
>
> We log a transcript of the meeting on the wiki you can read it whenever you like.
> And we send an invitation to the meeting hours prior with it, including the pad (who is also used as transcript) and for your team to share updates if you cant/do not want to attend.
>
> There are people who can not attend the meetings, either due to time constraints, insufficient internet connections, or disabilities. e-mail just works.
>
> And the same holds true for email.
> We have a lot of people who do not attend the mail list because they see it as an outdated medium and the frequent (in their eyes) pointless discussions.
>
> How many teams reacted to the "Team:Warehouse is now open!" mail to the list?
> We see that we have very limited reach with the maillist. This is already true since MCH (where we also shared most information during meetings, so this shouldn't be a real surprise).
>
>
> Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek
> T: +31611530564
>
> On 13/05/2025 22:35, CH23 wrote:
>
> Hi Robin,
>
> I can't agree with that reasoning. E-mail can be read at any time and should be the way to communicate orga-wide as it is not time-sensitive.
> The meetings are fine to get a general update from teams, although usually not of interest for my team. With 42 teams, this means that we use up an entire workweek of time to discuss very little of substance. I expect important information to find its' way to me by e-mail.
> I never heard anybody say "this could have been a meeting" when receiving an e-mail, but "this could have been an e-mail" after a one-hour meeting is used a lot.
>
> There are people who can not attend the meetings, either due to time constraints, insufficient internet connections, or disabilities. e-mail just works.
>
> Please use the mailing list to communicate important information.
>
> With kind regards,
> CH23 / Jochem
>
> On Tue, 13 May 2025 at 19:48, Robin Edgar <robinedgar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, sorry, but to put it bluntly: What do you think the online meetings are for?
>>
>> On Tue, 13 May 2025 at 19:46, Sebastian Oort <bas at knutselaar.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah so yes it was mentioned in an online meeting.
>>>
>>> To put it bluntly and in Dutch: Zo werkt dat niet. Je wilt kritieke input vanuit elk team en dan benoem je dat in een online meeting? En NIEMAND denkt er aan om de teams even een mailtje te sturen waar ze op kunnen reageren?
>>>
>>> Nu vraag ik me af: wat voor kritieke vragen hebben we allemaal nog meer gemist?
>>>
>>> Ben hier echt niet blij mee.
>>>
>>> Bas
>>>
>>> Op 13 mei 2025, om 18:41 heeft Henry Schokkenbroek <henry at ifcat.org> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.why2025.org/Orga_Jitsi_15_Januari_2025
>>>
>>> Point 2 of the agenda.
>>>
>>> Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek
>>> T: +31611530564
>>>
>>> On 13/05/2025 18:36, Sebastian Oort wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking for my team: we never got that question. At least, we can’t remember and can’t find it in our team e-mailbox.
>>>
>>> Bas
>>>
>>> Op 13 mei 2025, om 18:17 heeft Henry Schokkenbroek via Orga <orga at lists.why2025.org> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> We've asked teams a few months ago if they see any scaling issues on going to 4000 visitors, but we also explicitly mentioned that we would postpone that decision to a later moment.
>>>
>>> Probably near the end of this month / beginning of next month, we will come with a final on this (this is a guestimate by myself).
>>>
>>>
>>> Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek
>>> T: +31611530564
>>>
>>> On 13/05/2025 17:55, Wheeze_NL wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rob,
>>>
>>> Do I understand that we are not planning on scaling up? I did not consider this until Bas mentioned it.
>>>
>>> Regards, Lennart
>>>
>>> Op ma 12 mei 2025 om 20:30 schreef Rob Verseijden via Orga <orga at lists.why2025.org>:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bas, thank you for asking. :)
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, we have had some delays with sorting out and checking the addresses, among other things. Nevertheless, we still love to find our posters hanging on the walls of hackerspaces, hopefully still motivating CfP and other participation.
>>>>
>>>> In order to reduce costs, we will personally deliver the materials within The Netherlands, in some regions in Germany (South Germany and Berlin) and (part of) Belgium.
>>>>
>>>> Still, it would be nice to have all materials safely packaged so that they remain neat and tidy, and it’s clear what has been delivered already and what is not.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards, Rob. (team:info)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bas Oort schreef op 2025-05-12 05:51:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Rob, i'd like to ask a question: "why?"
>>>>
>>>> We've got 500 tickets left to sell, sending out 200 packages feels "a bit much" at this stage.
>>>>
>>>> Unless the plan is to get another batch of tickets sold (going from 3.5k to 4k), i see little reason to spend all these resources (time, money, materials) at this time.
>>>>
>>>> If the plan is to add another batch of tickets, my team (and several other teams!) really need to know *soon*.
>>>>
>>>> Bas
>>>> (Team Waste)
>>>>
>>>> Op 11 mei 2025 om 23:25 heeft Rob via Orga <orga at lists.why2025.org> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>> Dear WHY-minded people. :D
>>>>
>>>> WHY2025 will provide posters and stickers to around 200 hackerspaces in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. To achieve this, 200 tubes need to be labelled and filled with posters, flyers and stickers.
>>>>
>>>> This Thursday, 15 May, Team:info is organising a sweatshop to get this done.
>>>>
>>>> Drinks and dinner will be provided.
>>>>
>>>> Please let us know about your intend to assist bij adding your name to the list at the Bitlair page mentioned below or with an e-mail to elborro at bitlair dot nl.
>>>>
>>>> WHY even page: https://wiki.why2025.org/Team:Info/sweatshop-2025-05-15
>>>>
>>>> Bitlair event page: https://bitlair.nl/Events/2025-05-15_WHY2025_sweatshop
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Rob.
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Vriendelijke groeten / Kind regards, Rob.
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>>>
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