[Shuttle] Shuttles

[Henry Schokkenbroek]

Yeah it's fine, you showed that you at least have put some effort into
it and didn't just copy over numbers of last time without checking if
they are still valid.

Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek
T: +31611530564

On 25/05/2025 20:23, Hugh Wells wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> I don't know if we ever resolved this?
>
> Are you happy with the shuttle numbers, or do we need to change them?
>
> I'm not aware that Shuttle team has any specific budget envelope
> beyond the Shuttles themselves - could you confirm if that is the case?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On 06/05/2025 08:29, Hugh Wells via Shuttle wrote:
>
>     Hey Henry!
>
>     So the plan is to use the drop-off zone on the North side of
>     Alkmaar station. This is around 11km away (similar distance to MCH).
>
>     We expect a similar turnaround time to that which you've calculated :)
>
>     > With 5 vans, that would mean a van every 8 minutes. That is even
>     more than our public transport and feels excessive.
>
>     So I think it's worth bearing in mind a few points:
>     - the 5 vans is to handle peak demand. We won't run them all
>     continuously; indeed it would be hard to find volunteers for that
>     - however, on the first/last day we will have a lot of people
>     *and* luggage - during busy periods we would have all the vans in use
>     - we also take into account some elongated journey times due to
>     congestion getting on/off site - we don't have dedicated access to
>     my knowledge
>     - we anticipate vans being "borrowed" for other tasks - at MCH I
>     drove someone (forget who) all the way back to Den Haag as they
>     had COVID. Although it's very much unadvertised, we imagine there
>     will be Orga who need to borrow a vehicle for urgent uses.
>     - we also need to take into account charging (see below for
>     further discussion), so need a bit of a buffer
>
>     We do not intend to run 5 vans continuously throughout the week.
>     We actually only need 2 or 3 vans for most of the time from build
>     up to teardown (and this was communicated to Manduca), but
>     staggering vehicle numbers comes with additional complexity & time
>     penalty (driving back and forth to KAV).
>
>     On charging...
>
>     > Also power cost money, in fact it is €0,40/kWh
>
>     Sure; but it's not coming off our budget to my knowledge :)
>     In any case, it's cheaper than fuel per km.
>
>     > Also note this van charges at 11kW max (3x 16A), so to charge
>     the full 75kWh would take you about 7 hours.
>
>     Yes, this is taken into account. Most times we expect to have a
>     couple of vehicles on charge, rising to all of them overnight.
>
>     In reality, I expect on a shuttle shift change that a new driver
>     will take a van off charge and the finishing driver will put
>     theirs onto charge. In that way we'll load balance across all of
>     them.
>
>     During peak usage we will have none on charge, of course.
>
>     > What is also a bit questionable if you only have one or 2
>     chargers and 5 vans.
>
>     We've agreed power provision with NUTS and a 63A supply with up to
>     8 11kWh chargers.
>
>     The vans do support DC fast charging which we can use in extremis
>     (there's fast chargers in Alkmaar). We want to avoid this where
>     possible as it's expensive (the same price as fuel).
>
>     https://wiki.why2025.org/Team:Nuts/heavy_power_request_list
>
>     > I just want to see that you have thought it through and not
>     bluntly taken the numbers from MCH and copied them over
>
>     Yes, happy to discuss further :)
>     The numbers are based on MCH and Manduca's advice and experience
>     from previous events (SHA, OHM).
>
>     If you need to find budgetry headroom then we can discuss reducing
>     the shuttle requirements - in the worst case it means it takes
>     longer to move people and needing to fast charge. That may be an
>     acceptable risk to take, vs the cost of the additional van hire.
>
>     There may be some other trade offs we can make here too; Wheeze
>     (Lennart) would like us to have trackers in the Shuttles, which I
>     agree with, which would possibly help us make more efficient use
>     of them (and give visitors live information). Unfortunately we
>     don't have any budget (to my knowledge) so we cannot buy them.
>
>     One issue we have is that there are no shuttle tickets, so we
>     really have no idea what the actual demand profile looks like,
>     other than the reasonable assumption that Day -1 & 0 will be very
>     busy.
>
>     I did send a shuttle blog over to Info, so maybe we could publish
>     that and include a link to a form for people to provide us with
>     arrival/departure details? We could also include that in the
>     pre-event email.
>
>     We can then flex the KAV renral up/down based on that, closer to
>     the time.
>
>     Let me know what you think. Either way, I'd like Manduca to give
>     his opinion :)
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Hugh
>
>     -------- Original Message --------
>     On 06/05/2025 02:01, Henry Schokkenbroek wrote:
>     Hi Hugh,
>     Yes, correct. As 5 vans sounds like a high number.
>     And while it is correct we also had 5 with MCH, they were also
>     used for a lot of other purposes then only train shuttle (and one
>     van was totalled after day -3 or so).
>     Not sure what train station you'd be driving to, but Alkmaar (big
>     train station!) is 10min away.
>     Say you will be 10min loading + 10 min driving X 2 (back and
>     forth). A single van would have a turnaround time of 40 minutes.
>     With 5 vans, that would mean a van every 8 minutes. That is even
>     more than our public transport and feels excessive.
>     Our fuel costs should (hopefully) be very limited if we can get
>     the EV charging right, but there will be some incidental expenses
>     I imagine. 
>     You are counting yourself rich here...
>     Also power cost money, in fact it is €0,40/kWh.
>     The peugeot e-travveler has a battery of 75kWh so a full charge
>     would set you back about €30.
>     The range of the van, fully loaded is about 300km's, so I expect
>     you to be charging daily during the busy days.
>     Also note this van charges at 11kW max (3x 16A), so to charge the
>     full 75kWh would take you about 7 hours.
>     What is also a bit questionable if you only have one or 2 chargers
>     and 5 vans.
>
>     I just want to see that you have thought it through and not
>     bluntly taken the numbers from MCH and copied them over because im
>     afraid that aint going to work.
>
>     Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek T: +31611530564
>     On 05/05/2025 22:04, Hugh Wells wrote:
>     Hey Henry!
>
>     Nancy suggested I get in touch to discuss the Shuttle requirements :)
>
>     I think you had a question about the number of vehicles?
>
>     I didn't run the shuttle for MCH, but I do know Faze quite well
>     (who did) and obviously have discussed with Manduca a lot. My
>     understanding is that the numbers this year are in line with
>     previous requests, but perhaps this isn't the case?
>
>     I don't know what our allocated budget is either? Our fuel costs
>     should (hopefully) be very limited if we can get the EV charging
>     right, but there will be some incidental expenses I imagine.  
>
>     Best,
>
>     Hugh
>
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